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 Post subject: Re: (Shocking) New Insights about the (never released) new A
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:44 am
Posts: 1085
Not really shocking.....recycled news.

It was Phil Manzanera who said the tracks they had worked on back in 2005/6 were "sub-standard" and Bryan seemed unable to come up with lyrics.

Eno said in an interview that "It was a big decision for me to do those two days in the studio with them. Not that I don't like them. I like them all. They're nice people. But because I thought, 'Oh, fuck, I'm going to have to spend years talking about this, and it was only two days"

There are many who think anything after Siren was the decline of Roxy Music as we knew them so would a release of material they worked on and they considered sub-standard over 10 years ago do well now in 2018?

Some things are better left unsaid.

8-)


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 Post subject: Re: (Shocking) New Insights about the (never released) new A
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:01 am
Posts: 34
Roxy wrote:
Not really shocking.....recycled news.

It was Phil Manzanera who said the tracks they had worked on back in 2005/6 were "sub-standard" and Bryan seemed unable to come up with lyrics.

8-)


Ah okay, i understand your point... Maybe "shocking" is not the perfect word for this.
But what i find the most disappointing about Manzo´s quote is that they essentially met up for the music´s sake (they had nothing to prove at this point of their career). They then were as far as having 15-16 songs/demos/ideas and then Bryan says that he is unable to write lyrics.

Didn´t he know beforehand?
Was there never the will or the thought of collaborating with extern guys in terms of songwriting? Were the others not able to pull off some lyrics?

Btw: When it comes to material being "sub-standard" they never should have released Side 2 of Manifesto...IMHO. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: (Shocking) New Insights about the (never released) new A
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:44 am
Posts: 1085
Looking at the timeline and evidence Steve It could be that there was no real song writing collaboration in terms of them spending time together working on songs & lyrics. It seems like perhaps they individually had emptied their pockets and checked down the back of the sofa to see if there was anything worth having a look at which they could they could transform into something approaching the Roxy Music standard......just a thought. :)

8-)


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 Post subject: Re: (Shocking) New Insights about the (never released) new A
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:27 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:46 pm
Posts: 297
[quote="DCJ"]Avondale:
In positing your belief that Siren represented the end of Roxy you also offered a caveat that there were tracks on Manifesto (like the title track) that also reflected authentic Roxy. And my point is that those very tracks represent the last to feature TGPT.

Hey, if you're disinterested in the 05/06 recordings that's your call. But the core lineup on those recordings constituted BF, AM, PM, TGPT, and Eno. What could be more Roxy than the 05/06 ensemble?[/quote]

Hello again DCJ,
I didn’t say that there were tracks on Manifesto that reflected authentic Roxy; just that there were tracks on that album that didn’t merit the adjectives that I used to describe the late ‘70s/ early ‘80s output generally. That said, Manifesto (the track) does have an authentic Roxy feel to it while it would be a stretch to make that claim for a couple of tracks on Siren (notably LITD). So the lines are a bit blurred but in simplistic terms the essence of what I said holds true for me. If you (though I suspect not) are among those who think that all 8 studio albums are spectacular and represent a cohesive set of work then I envy you as there is so much more for you to enjoy.

Your point about TGPT is an interesting one and something that I have never considered before. However, while there is doubtless a strong positive correlation at play here I don’t think that defines things for me. I prefer my “natural end of the musical journey” thesis.

As seems to be the case with most VRM members, I am interested to varying degrees in what each of the members of RM get up to so obviously if so many of them get together in a studio then I am going to be interested in that - but to me that doesn’t make their output authentic Roxy output. There are so many factors that have changed ( not least that they were late middle-aged men in ‘05/06 with different values, tastes, influences and experiences than the class of ‘75 - never mind that a very different set of general musical, social and cultural norms were at play in the ‘70s) for this to be the case. I am just grateful that for a brief spell in the early to mid ‘70s the planets all aligned and gave us Roxy Music - but accept that they have long since moved off on their separate paths never to be so perfectly positioned again.


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 Post subject: Re: (Shocking) New Insights about the (never released) new A
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:40 am
Posts: 324
Location: Lancaster
Quote:
I am just grateful that for a brief spell in the early to mid ‘70s the planets all aligned and gave us Roxy Music - but accept that they have long since moved off on their separate paths never to be so perfectly positioned again.

Very nicely summarised Avondale. Whilst I'd have loved those recording sessions to have been fruitful (and to somehow work), it's now 12 years on and I just can't see how an album 36 years after their last one could augment that body of work or be the sort of commercial success any record label would undoubtedly require. Just something to add to the lengthy RM missed opportunity list.


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 Post subject: Re: (Shocking) New Insights about the (never released) new A
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:59 pm
Posts: 93
There's a few things I would like to add:

PM stated at one point that they had signed a contract for three albums. He said they'd recorded about 18 tracks, and about 12 of them were excellent.

Much later on, PM stated very diplomatically that the tracks weren't up to standard because they weren't good enough to inspire BF to write lyrics.

IMO this is very plausible, and indeed fair, given the way that BF works. In Andy Mackay's words (in a QUIETUS interview) "inspiration can't appear on demand".

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a member of Roxy Musique, I can state that the vast majority of requests are for songs from the first five albums. In the past (as a member of a BF and Roxy tribute) all the requests were for songs from the first two albums. Since largely dropping BF songs from our shows the only BF song we have had requested is Slave to Love.

We have from time to time included The "In" Crowd (as Roxy played it in 75) and we do often play Let's Stick Together (as Roxy played it in 2005) but we have received some criticism for playing "too many BF songs".


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 Post subject: Re: (Shocking) New Insights about the (never released) new A
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:32 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:33 pm
Posts: 93
Location: New York City
So, a couple of the 18 found there way onto Olympia?

Also, Bryan has been known to surprise the rest of the guys with lyrics and vocals all worked out. Mother of Pearl and Love is the Drug being two examples. Perhaps there's a notebook or two filled with wondrous lyrics, that has been misplaced?


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 Post subject: Re: (Shocking) New Insights about the (never released) new A
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:23 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 98
Interview with Guy Pratt on vivaROXYMUSIC.com in 2006:

VRM:
How is the new Roxy album coming along?

GP:
It is coming along fine, I have been involved here and there and it is a pleasure to work with these guys, a band whom I have admired since I was a kid. I shouldn’t comment too much on the album at this stage as things change all the time but I am sure it will be a great album.
..................................................................................................
I would be very interested in what other musicians were still involved in the recordings in 200/2006 and above all who paid them ..


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 Post subject: Re: (Shocking) New Insights about the (never released) new A
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:58 pm
Posts: 861
It's a good thing that everyone on the VRM forum has their own sense of Roxy - different people enjoy different aspects of Roxy's long history!!! Nice!!!

I found owhawell comments regarding the songs that fans attending Roxy Musique's show most want to hear to be quite interesting. It offers yet more evidence of how the first iteration of Roxy ('72-'76) really connected with a wide-ranging British fan base in the 1970s.

Here in the states there is certainly a coterie of long-standing fans that appreciate pre-'76 Roxy, but it is a rather select group of devotees. It wasn't until F&B and Avalon that Roxy found a more broad-based audience in the states and racked up some substantial album sales. In my view, American college-aged women of the 1980s responded to the softer sound of post-Manifesto Roxy and to the less provocative album art of F&B and Avalon. IMHO it is BF's post-Avalon sound that resonates with his biggest fan base in the states.


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 Post subject: Re: (Shocking) New Insights about the (never released) new A
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:11 pm
Posts: 41
Having been to 20+ BF and Roxy gigs in the Sates the last 40 years I think DCJ comments are unfortunately correct. The USA crowds largely sit on their hands during the classic older RM material and only really energize for the post Manifesto material(plus Love Drug).

I on the other hand am 180 degrees opposite of this.


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