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 Post subject: Re: Why the "soundtrack/instrumental" intermezzo?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:49 pm
Posts: 225
paraphonix wrote:
Sadie's Boyfriend wrote:
I would take this "fued", if you like, back to '76 when IYM was the 6th Roxy Music album, bar Andy. Agree with Paul sadly, being allowed to move on, as being significant, but is paul part of the Roxy Music "PLC"?


...i think paul IS part of roxy music plc...obv he returned for the reunion, but he also managed to oust the andy newmark/tara ferry combo for the all-important US leg of the 'Olympia' tour, and fulfilled all dates in 2012. he clearly has something that BF keeps returning too...


I don't think Paul is now part of Roxy PLC. It's BF, Am & PM. Paul (I think) was bought out when they fell out in 1980. But yes, Paul makes things sound as they should sound when he plays and is THE only RM drummer for me.
Alas I doubt they will be together again.


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 Post subject: Re: Why the "soundtrack/instrumental" intermezzo?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:53 pm 
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Back in 1980 (between Manifesto and Flesh and Blood) Paul agreed to leave Roxy (at BF's behest) and he was compensated for his agreement to legally separate himself from Roxy Music (he did, however, retain royalty rights to the songs and albums he had helped record).

From that time on the legal entity that is Roxy Music constituted a partnership between BF, PM, and AM. None of them can appear as or record as Roxy Music without the concurrence of the other two. In essence, they each have veto power over any project that the other to might wish to do under the name Roxy Music.

Anyone other than BF, PM, or AM, who appears with Roxy Music is in essence a hired hand (likely a well paid hired hand, but a hired hand nonetheless). This was certainly the case for TGPT in 2001 (although he may have received a royalty share from the live album from the 2001 tour that sidemen like Chris Spedding wouldn't have gotten).

TGPT's position vis-a-vis Roxy changed a little bit in 2005-06 when he was officially reinstated as the band's drummer, but this almost certainly did not involve a restructuring of the Roxy Partnership that would have brought him back as an equal with BF, PM, and AM. (for example, the Rolling Stones as a legal entity are controlled by Mick J, Keith R. and Charlie W.; Ron Wood - who joined in '76 after Mick Taylor left - is featured as a member of the Stones in promos, etc, but he doesn't own a piece of the business like the other three)

When it comes to the Bryan Ferry Band EVERYBODY is a hired hand except BF himself. It is BF's band and he can hire and fire and do whatever he wants. By every indication he pays members of his band a very good wage for their services, which is something they all like. But in return BF keeps complete control over everything.

The essential difference between Roxy Music and the BF Band is that nothing can happen regarding Roxy unless BF, PM, and AM all agree, while BF needs nobody's approval to do what he wants with the BF Band.


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 Post subject: Re: Why the "soundtrack/instrumental" intermezzo?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:40 am
Posts: 207
That is it.

Perfectly summed up, and I believe a lot of unanswered question's lie answered, therein.
As I read it, the PLC between the 3 was formed around the time of the release of Jealous Guy. Without looking, I seem to remember it being labled as "Roxy 1". Definately don't quote me, and I can't be arsed digging it out to look. In other words, whatever single after Paul, or possibly even with him, was labled as above, Roxy 1, was when the PLC was formed.

I believe great caution was taken after the PLC was formed to make sure none of the three performed on any Ferry solo stuff at the same time, and if they did, it was highlighted that they were never there all at once. Were the 3 together at any time on Ferry solo stuff? Used to look out for it, up till a point.

That info was given to me way before the advent of Internet, and forums, by a great friend from within the music industry.


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 Post subject: Re: Why the "soundtrack/instrumental" intermezzo?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:19 pm 
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Posts: 207
Did it the lazy way and checked Jelous Guy on e-bay, and it was "Roxy 2". Same Old Scene is "Roxy 1", which would just about marry in with Paul moving, or getting moved, on.
Wonder what "The Dumbells" was coded with though?

And does anyone remember the wee inscription on the vinyl, just outside the label, we always got on Roxy vinyl. I seem to recall my copy of "Viva" reading "a porky prime cut". or maybe it was the Siren album. Check your copy.


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 Post subject: Re: Why the "soundtrack/instrumental" intermezzo?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:22 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:49 pm
Posts: 225
Sadie's Boyfriend wrote:
Did it the lazy way and checked Jelous Guy on e-bay, and it was "Roxy 2". Same Old Scene is "Roxy 1", which would just about marry in with Paul moving, or getting moved, on.
Wonder what "The Dumbells" was coded with though?

And does anyone remember the wee inscription on the vinyl, just outside the label, we always got on Roxy vinyl. I seem to recall my copy of "Viva" reading "a porky prime cut". or maybe it was the Siren album. Check your copy.


Yes, a porky prime cut! There was various thing written in that space.


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 Post subject: Re: Why the "soundtrack/instrumental" intermezzo?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:32 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:49 pm
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DCJ wrote:
Back in 1980 (between Manifesto and Flesh and Blood) Paul agreed to leave Roxy (at BF's behest) and he was compensated for his agreement to legally separate himself from Roxy Music (he did, however, retain royalty rights to the songs and albums he had helped record).

From that time on the legal entity that is Roxy Music constituted a partnership between BF, PM, and AM. None of them can appear as or record as Roxy Music without the concurrence of the other two. In essence, they each have veto power over any project that the other to might wish to do under the name Roxy Music.

Anyone other than BF, PM, or AM, who appears with Roxy Music is in essence a hired hand (likely a well paid hired hand, but a hired hand nonetheless). This was certainly the case for TGPT in 2001 (although he may have received a royalty share from the live album from the 2001 tour that sidemen like Chris Spedding wouldn't have gotten).

TGPT's position vis-a-vis Roxy changed a little bit in 2005-06 when he was officially reinstated as the band's drummer, but this almost certainly did not involve a restructuring of the Roxy Partnership that would have brought him back as an equal with BF, PM, and AM. (for example, the Rolling Stones as a legal entity are controlled by Mick J, Keith R. and Charlie W.; Ron Wood - who joined in '76 after Mick Taylor left - is featured as a member of the Stones in promos, etc, but he doesn't own a piece of the business like the other three)

When it comes to the Bryan Ferry Band EVERYBODY is a hired hand except BF himself. It is BF's band and he can hire and fire and do whatever he wants. By every indication he pays members of his band a very good wage for their services, which is something they all like. But in return BF keeps complete control over everything.

The essential difference between Roxy Music and the BF Band is that nothing can happen regarding Roxy unless BF, PM, and AM all agree, while BF needs nobody's approval to do what he wants with the BF Band.


I think this is pretty much spot on!
Wonder what happened a couple of years ago to end it all? They seemed to all get on so well from 2001 onward.
I doubt I will see BF live again personally, I can't be doing with this Jazz stuff, and doubt the future albums will have anything of interest to me (could be wrong tho?) as the last one I thought was any good was IYM. Frantic was ok as well and was the last time I saw BF live. So unless he makes it up with the "others" then I will most likely bow out with the memory of 2011.


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 Post subject: Re: Why the "soundtrack/instrumental" intermezzo?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:22 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:33 pm
Posts: 47
fascinating debate... for what it's worth, talk of "chemistry" between roxy members always makes me smile. has there ever been chemistry between ferry and the gang? he's never been a great mover (in fact, he's famed for being quite the opposite) so was never likely to bounce around the stage and interact, in a literal, physical sense. he's also, in my experience, never been one to talk endlessly between songs and/or gesture with the others/to the crowd. maybe in the very early days, when the roxy show was in full swing, but certainly not since 2001. ferry is an introvert, he's not a showman like jagger/bowie - which has pros as well as cons, of course.

before jumping to conclusions - that ferry has fallen out with his chums and the roxy wagon broke down long ago - we should perhaps reflect. there was chemistry musically, in abundance. but chemistry in personalities and on stage was never a pre-cursor for success. doubtless phil/paul would be game for a laugh live, but ferry and andy are simply not the types. they've grown old gracefully and, if truth be known, are starting to show their age...


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