Oh yes the electric piano change to acoustic - Great spot - I too love She Sells

Parts of Stranded are pretty wild sonically

I think Andy's playing was very textural on Stranded and parts of Siren - he is credited with treatments on Stranded so I think some of the things we hear are treated sax - Amazona perhaps as an example

@Richard: Very interesting points you made. Here some comments:

1. I think the sound of Bȇte Noire has to be judged by the sound of that time. And in fact Limbo, Kiss + Tell and New Town to me are one of Ferry's finest - I wish he had recorded it with Roxy Music, especially New Town which could have been a part of Manifesto ...

2. Ferry's singing during Andy's sax solo in Sentimental Fool doesn't disturb me much - but I only know this version of the song (Siren was a fantastic album, even if Whirlwind was a little bit too heavy and Just Another High had once again Phil's dominating high pitched electric rhythm guitar (as in Prairie Rose). But as we all know it's a matter of taste .

3. If It Takes All Night: Maybe the song where Bryan/Roxy wanted to prove to the world that he/they can boogie . Not one of their masterpieces ... But the whole album (with the exception of Three And Nine, Out Of The Blue, Bitter-Sweet + A Really Good Time) should have had a better production - by Mr. Thomas as you propose. Casanova was way toooo heavy (Ferry's solo: much better).

4. Yes, Andy played sometimes in a textural way - as you call it. But I didn't want to have a big band but Andy's cool sax solos which especially could have jazzed up All I Want Is You.

5. Amazona was a perfect masterpiece (the middle part has a complicated rhythm with 14/8 or 14/4 timing). I have to listen to it again to find out what you meant with Andy's treatment.

J. O'B.: Very good idea, this cognoscenti thread

Yes Bete Noir is very much of the time - I think there are some really good songs on it and in a way it is one of my fave Ferry solo albums

I love the original Casanova. Again its a matter of taste and respect other views totally - its just the way Phil and Andy and Eddie just produce the kinetic energy that only Roxy can produce.

I know what you mean about Andy's solos - I have always loved them and think your idea would have been great - some sort of duel with Phil on the solo would have been magical a la RM/RM or Ladytron - perfect opportunity for then to go Roxy bonkers.

Ahh the time signatures in Amazona - I always count the section you refer to as three bars of three and a bar of five which does add up to 14 but breaking it up helps me play along to it.

I think the same section has a lot of of backwards and treated saxophones on it (more evident at the start). And possibly behind Phil's solo section on both sides of the stereo mix. There is so much going on and sounds amazing on headphones.

I also think he is present in the fast section of MOP but again as a colour in the background similar to Streetlife?

Pianoman/Richard,

Some really interesting comments here by you both Here are a few thoughts from me.

As regards Country Life I love the album, but not the production, in particular the drums. IMHO Siren was much better in this respect. When the Explorers were touring I met Andy and Phil before a gig and Andy said that Country Life was his favourite Roxy album, followed by Stranded. Phil went for For Your Pleasure.

Going back to Country Life. Phil uses a Rickenbacker 12 string on Prairie Rose to get that particular sound. It has to be said that not everyone is a fan of 12 strings. I've been fortunate enough to chat with the UK luthier Rob Armstrong on a few occasions. He said to me once that 12 strings, banjos and ukuleles were all the same in the sense that they were OK for one song! I tend to agree with him

On to Amazona. As you might expect Peter ( ) I think it's a great track with Phil doing what he does best, but let's not forget the excellent work of TGPT. As regards time signatures I'm not too good away from 3/4 and 4/4, although I think the part of the song where BF sings "hey little girl" (which I think inspired Icehouse) is in 7/4. It just feels to me that this is Phil bursting out of some band constraints.

Finally I'm a big fan of the heavier Roxy tracks like Stronger Through the Years, but then perhaps my all time favourite Roxy/BF track is Just Like You - such a finely crafted song.

I think it's a shame for those of us who are interested in recording, production etc that there haven't been more RM/BF interviews about this subject. However, I have managed to find one with Phil: http://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/manza ... ories/4880

Like you I would love to know more about there recording sessions - according to many the usual modus operandi (until F&B) was for the band to work on the backing tracks completely and then Ferry would come in once they were done with the top line and lyrics.

Avalon was different https://www.soundonsound.com/people/rec ... ics-avalon

One of their albums could do with the Classic Albums treatment

Thanks for the PM interview.

I rechecked Amazona's time sig - definitely three bars of 3/4 then a bar of 5/4

I believe he played guitar on the studio version (opening chords) of pyjamarama. I may be wrong...it may be only that he wrote it...but my old brain remembers reading/hearing it somewhere.

I read that, too, Roxy Siren. - Bryan is no virtuoso but he always knew how to use his instruments (piano, guitar, harmonica, voice) effectively.

Triggered by this thread I played some Roxy CDs (Siren, Stranded, Country Life) again and again and listened carefully to instrumentation, production etc. I have to say that our criticisms are sometimes definitely justified - but indeed at a very high level ...

I am thankful to be a fan of this fantastic art rock band, thankful that the main members are still alive and the memory of this band is still fresh in our generation - while today's chart music is only a consumer product for streaming services, radio stations, clubs and shops :-/

Oh yes, Amazona: It includes the most complicated rhythm structure of any Roxy song. Almost prog rock Nevertheless you could listen to it without thinking "that's inaudible". What a great art of song writing!

BTW: There have been very few successful songs with 5/4 time or 7/8 Time: Take Five (Brubeck), Money (Pink Floyd), Solsbury Hill (Peter Gabriel) or I Hung My Head (Sting). Amazona wasn't a single record but only a fantastic gem from Stranded

Stay safe - P.

I read that, too, Roxy Siren. - Bryan is no virtuoso but he always knew how to use his instruments (piano, guitar, harmonica, voice) effectively.

Triggered by this thread I played some Roxy CDs (Siren, Stranded, Country Life) again and again and listened carefully to instrumentation, production etc. I have to say that our criticisms are sometimes definitely justified - but indeed at a very high level ...

I am thankful to be a fan of this fantastic art rock band, thankful that the main members are still alive and the memory of this band is still fresh in our generation - while today's chart music is only a consumer product for streaming services, radio stations, clubs and shops .

Oh yes, Amazona: It includes the most complicated rhythm structure of any Roxy song. Almost prog rock Nevertheless you could listen to it without thinking "that's inaudible". What a great art of song writing!

BTW: There have been very few successful songs with 5/4 time or 7/8 Time: Take Five (Brubeck), Money (Pink Floyd), Solsbury Hill (Peter Gabriel) or I Hung My Head (Sting). Amazona wasn't a single record but only a fantastic gem from Stranded .

Stay safe - P.

Roxologists,
It is heartening in these bizarre times to read Pianoman’s poignant words.
We have indeed been blessed.
I remember Sunday 4th June 1972 as with it was yesterday.
The venue was ‘Redcar Jazz Club’ at The Coatham Hotel, Redcar.
Alongside Newcastle’s Club AGOGO and Kirk Levington Country Club, it was an iconic live venue that played host to most of the great bands of the day and some up and coming Regional favourites and was a fitting venue for their North-East debut.
As a native of the region and a regular night owl Ferry would doubtless have been familiar with it although I don’t think he ever played there with either ‘The Banshees’ or ‘The Gas Board’. Those bands were operating a level below that and for them ‘Redcar Jazz Club’ would probably have been an aspiration.
Anyway, I had no clue what to expect. I went along purely because my then girlfriend wanted to and in any event we used to alternate Sunday nights between that and Kirk Levington.
I didn’t immediately recognise Ferry from ‘The Gas Board’ as he looked quite different.‘The Gas Board’ were a mod band whereas for Roxy, Ferry had donned all the glitz and the glamour and in his Antony Price designed outfit he looked like something from outer space.
At the time I saw the band, I remember that Phil Manzanera had already replaced David O’List, Graham Simpson was still on bass (although he was to leave shortly afterwards) and the rest of the line up was the one we got to know and love.
When they struck up, we were all transported to a different planet.
They truly sounded like the past, present and future all rolled into one.
I’d never heard their music before and the first album wouldn’t be released until a couple of weeks later but we all knew we were witnessing something truly special.
Indeed, ‘72 turned into the best year of my life. I saw Roxy for the first time and I met my wife.
As Pianoman says, these are halcyon days - then and now and we are so lucky to have Ferry & crew.
Bon re-lock and see you all when we are released.
Meanwhile kill the blues with lots of Ferry.
Salutations,
Windswept.