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 Post subject: Solo Roxy - Non Ferry
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:57 pm 
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I have noticed that there does not seem to be much chat here on topics regarding the solo work of Roxy members other than Bryan's canon.

Is this because;

Most people are Bryan Ferry fans and Roxy is part of Bryan's overall output. and that as his voice is the lead on both his solo work then it is seen as one and the same thing?

Some fans have listened to Andy, Phil & Eno's solo work and find it too far away from Roxy's work due to the lead voice being different?

Some fans have just never been curious enough about the other solo stuff?

Some fans are not curious enough because there have never been solo hits as such from the rest of the guys under their own name and that Bryan is a more famous household name?

A combination of those reasons above?

Some other reason?

Regards
J.O'B.


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 Post subject: Re: Solo Roxy - Non Fer
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 7:23 pm
Posts: 1428
VivaRoxyMusic.com wrote:
I have noticed that there does not seem to be much chat here on topics regarding the solo work of Roxy members other than Bryan's canon......

Is this because;

Most people are Bryan Ferry fans and Roxy is part of Bryan's overall output. and that as his voice is the lead on both his sol work then it is seen as one and the same ......
J.O'B.


Cher J.O’B.,

It has long been Windswept’s assertion and therefore mine that ‘Roxy Music’ was always just one of Bryan Ferry’s bands.

One could argue that it was his best band ( albeit I wouldn’t ).

But nobody could argue that it wasn’t just one format of one band and there have been many other formats both under and outside the ‘Roxy Umbrella’ since.

I say that with the greatest of respect to the members of the original band who are all great musicians and whom have done interesting work themselves outside of the ‘Roxy’ brand.

So, yes, you were correct in your hypothesis that at least this fan thinks Bryan was Roxy and Roxy is Bryan.

This is probably why he sees no need to constantly reform the band. Indeed when he did so back in ‘01, it was probably as a favour to the other guys more than a necessity on his behalf.

As to which is or was his best band ?

Well, the debate will rage. Personally, I have huge admiration for the ATGB and AEWBF lineups but Bryan is a master band leader so maybe “ The Best Time Is The Next Time, As We All Know ?”.

Salutations,

W2


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 Post subject: Re: Solo Roxy - Non Ferry
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:25 pm
Posts: 517
Location: Kempten
I have always been interested in the output of every member of Roxy Music, especially in the 70s. Needle In The Camel's Eye, Taking Tiger Mountain, In Search Of Eddy Riff, Resolving Contradictions, Diamond Head, 801 Live, The Explorers, The Metaphors etc. have been eagerly awaited by me.

I admit that the Ferry Solo Albums were a little bit more interesting because he was the voice of the band. But after Roxy had closed their books in 1984 I mostly followed Bryan's work. Some I liked more (Bete Noir, Frantic, Olympia, Avonmore), some less (Boys + Girls, Taxi, Mamouna). BTW: In the last years I bought some albums from Phil (50 Minutes Later, 6 PM, The Sound Of Blue) which I liked very much.

Andy and Phil didn't have the success they deserved because of Bryan's missing voice (The Explorers, Manzanera/Mackay, Wetton/Manzanera). And Ferry was more or less successful since the 80s but I believe with Roxy Music they could have conquered the world - if they had not disbanded after their most successful album ...

My opinion is that Roxy is more than Bryan because the Roxy Music band sound influenced so many artists especially in the 70s and 80s (New Wave). Of course, Bryan's singing style had been copied throughout two decades and that is a real achievement. And Bryan's interest in music of the swing era/The Great American Songbook had been copied by a lot of artists (Robert Palmer, Robbie Williams, Rod Stewart etc.).

Even his strongest opponent (and friend?) Bowie released his cover album Pinups after Ferry had released TFT. And there were a lot of others to do the same thing.

But what I want to say is that most artists refer to Roxy not to Ferry. They don't cover Slave To Love but Street Life or If There Is Something or Oh Yeah. So we see that Bryan was (is?) certainly the most important member of Roxy, he was the founder, composed most songs and was the voice of the band. But Manzanera, Mackay, Thompson, Jobson, Porter, Gustafsson, Maida and even Simpson contributed enormously to the myth of this art rock band - my heroes (!!) until today.


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 Post subject: Re: Solo Roxy - Non Ferry
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:58 am
Posts: 140
Excellent post Peter! I had been trying to put my thoughts together on this subject, but you have done most of it for me!

You're right what you say about Phil and Andy not getting the success that they deserved. No disrespect to James Wraith, but I always thought that they needed something completely different to BF, such as a female vocalist, or a big name. IMHO John Wetton would have fitted the bill and what a band it would have been, particularly live. He would have had plenty of other commitments at the time though.

Looking back it's nearly 50 years since Roxy were formed. However, as a band they have only recorded and toured together for say 12 -15 years and that's BF/AM/PM only - about 30% of the time over that period. So I wonder if we should be defining our heroes by their time in Roxy Music? Eno and Eddie were in the band for very short periods only, Eddie going on to form UK with John Wetton. In this respect BF's solo career has overshadowed Roxy and the same goes for the other guys. Take Phil - solo albums, Quiet Sun, involvement with Latin bands, producer, working with (and very respected by) David Gilmour, Musical Director at Viva La Tarantula, Musical Director at Guitar Legends 1992 et etc. That's a pretty good CV even without Roxy!

IMHO most of BF's best work both on albums and live has been done with the involvement of Roxy members (excluding Andy). Take the RAH CD for example and the IYM tour. As regards BF doing Roxy songs on tour they always lack something particularly without Phil. OK Chris Spedding can do a decent job, but then that's how he has made a living sounding like other players (play his track Guitar Jamboree). Jeff Thall also did a pretty good job on Dreamhome quite a few years ago now.

Finally when BF tours in the future I'd like to see some new faces in his band. In paricularly I'd like to see the excellent Sarah Jones on drums (Harry Styles, Bloc Party, Bats for Lashes, New Young Pony Club, Hot Chip), but I guess that there might be contractual issues. I think she's be the perfect drummer for BF or even a Roxy without TGPT!


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 Post subject: Re: Solo Roxy - Non Ferry
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 7:23 pm
Posts: 1428
Mes Amis,

I have the greatest respect for the opinions of those renowned Roxologists, Pianoman et Roger but I have to say, it’s a nostalgia trip.

Nothing wrong with that because some nostalgia is good nostalgia.

The big difference is that it is Ferry who has evolved.

Every time you pick up a Ferry album or go to a Ferry concert you know you are going to get something new, different and better.

I remember when I met him in Paris 2007, after the Dylanesque gig, I was full of admiration for ‘ATGB’ - “Yes” Ferry said, “It was great but I thought I’d change it up this time and go guitar heavy”.

Brilliant I thought, I’m living in the past and he’s already moved on. The chameleon has changed whilst still retaining that unique style and relentless attention to quality.

This is why I find it farcical to suggest that this, that or the other may have been better with Andy, Phil or Paul. Everything is Ferry’s call and he invariably makes the right decision.

Salutations,

W2


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 Post subject: Re: Solo Roxy - Non Ferry
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:41 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:59 pm
Posts: 107
I've got all of the AM and PM solo albums, as well as most of the albums they heavily contributed to. I certainly consider myself more of a fan of their work than of any of BF's solo output. The musical journey the two of them has been on has been far more varied and interesting than BF's.

The most obvious thing about both 2001 and 2011 Roxy tours was just how much stage presence both AM and PM had...the same was true at the Roxymphony concert.

I wish someone had the balls to point out to BF that the BF sound has become a cliche - and that the aural soup (regardless of the ingredients) always sounds the same. The recent BF live album was really a disgrace in comparison with Albert Hall 1974 or any of the Roxy live albums.


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 Post subject: Re: Solo Roxy - Non Ferry
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:58 am
Posts: 140
W2 - my comments reflect the fact that I am a bigger fan of Phil Manzanera and what he has achieved over the last 50 years than either Roxy Music or Bryan ferry. You don't get the respect from the likes of David Gilmour by being an average musician. I feel exactly the same about Robert Fripp - the diversity of his output outside of the King Crimson framework appeals more to me that his work inside it.

Owhawell - yes I agree with you that Andy and Phil have a big stage presence whether working within the confines of Roxy or not.

With regards to BF I think he has become a victim of technology. So many recording tracks are available now that it's easy to have players like Gilmour playing on a song and not being able to hear their contribution. Over mixing and over production don't help. Compare and contrast to IYM, where the contribution of every player is clear, particularly Chris Spedding.

I remember an interview with BF around the time of IYM when he said he could make a Roxy sounding record without the Roxy members. Well all it takes is a basic knowledge of musical theory and how those songs were constructed in terms of beat per minute, keys, chord sequences, song structures etc. Ivor Davies did exactly this to make Icehouse sound very similar to Roxy, but then getting Rhett Davies in helped and of course he had Guy Pratt.

To repeat myself I think BF needs a fresh band and Sarah Jones would be a good start.


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 Post subject: Re: Solo Roxy - Non Ferry
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:58 am
Posts: 140
VivaRoxyMusic.com wrote:
I have noticed that there does not seem to be much chat here on topics regarding the solo work of Roxy members other than Bryan's canon.

Is this because;

Most people are Bryan Ferry fans and Roxy is part of Bryan's overall output. and that as his voice is the lead on both his sol work then it is seen as one and the same thing?

Some fans have listened to Andy, Phil & Eno's solo work and find it too far away from Roxy's work due to the lead voice being different?

Some fans have just never been curious enough about the other solo stuff?

Some fans are not curious enough because there have never been solo hits as such from the rest of the guys under their own name and that Bryan is a more famous household name?

A combination of those reasons above?

Some other reason?

Regards
J.O'B.


Hi John,

To answer your original (very good) question. I haven't posted much about Phil because there don't seem to be many like-minded people on the forum. As you probably know by now I have a huge amount of respect for him.

I would argue that Eno is now the most famous, well-known and successful person from Roxy, even though he was in the band for such a short space of time. So perhaps the forum should have a separate section for Eno?

As I've said before at one time there was certain "Roxyness" about all of the albums released before 1976. Listen to the 1974 RAH recordings - Roxy through and through just without their material. After that period things changed and certainly around the time of Avalon new people woke up to Roxy, by that time very much about BF.

Perhaps a forum section for the rest of the significant Roxy members might not go amiss, although there might be some debate about who comes into this category!


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 Post subject: Re: Solo Roxy - Non Ferry
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:25 pm
Posts: 517
Location: Kempten
@Windswept2: I completely accept your opinion that Roxy is Ferry and vice versa even if it's not exactly mine. His fondness of jazz began with TFT and went on with SGIYE and YGTMH. The ATGB album was his masterpiece but this jazzy side is and never was his only one.

So it might have been pure nostalgia but in each new song, each new album I tried to find "the" Roxy-related song or sound (New Town). My soul was touched when I discovered Andy's oboe (Song For The Siren), Phil's Guitar (I'm In The Mood For Love) or Eno's synthie squeezing (I Thought).

Bryan Ferry had always been an artist whose intention was to move on - whether regarding his sound, his musicians or his style. I moved on together with him and can say that my last concert in 2018 was fabulous, with a tight band (Luke Bullen, Chris Spedding, Guy Pratt and Jorja Renn). But there were so many songs where they simply interpreted the creative performance of AM/PM/PT.

You can call it nostalgia, WS2, but you shouldn't forget who invented the melodic arcs, the harmonies, the drum sounds etc. Bryan is a far better musician than I thought when I was young but I can hardly believe he wrote scores for all the band members ...

So isn't it pure nostalgia what Bryan and his (technically perfect) band serves to us fans nowadays? That's what they want to play and what the fans want to hear!

Stay healthy, Windswept 2, your contributions are always a benefit for us members! Au revoir et à bientôt!


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 Post subject: Re: Solo Roxy - Non Ferry
PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:25 pm
Posts: 517
Location: Kempten
@Roger: You're right, Hey Little Girl or Street Café by Icehouse could have been easily sung by Bryan instead of Iva Davies ... and the same thing I always thought when listening to Such A Shame, It's My Life or Dum Dum Girl by Talk Talk (RIP Mark Hollis). So many bands Roxy influenced with their style and Bryan with his voice 8-) .


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