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 Post subject: Re: Roxy is Ferry?? - Ferry is Roxy ???
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:45 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 7:23 pm
Posts: 1428
Cher Owhawell,

W2 is afraid we must agree to disagree.

Anybody thinking Boys & Girls, ATGB , Dylanesque, TJA and Bitter Sweet are saymey perhaps has impaired hearing ?

A more varied trajectory of creativity is difficult to imagine.

Mais, good luck with the tribute stuff.

Salutations,

Windswept.


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 Post subject: Re: Roxy is Ferry?? - Ferry is Roxy ??
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:59 pm
Posts: 107
Fair comment about the jazz albums but I do find Boys and Girls, Bete Noire, Taxi, Mamouna, Frantic, Dylanesque, Olympia and Avonmore very samey...and indeed there is good reason for this as many of the tracks have been knocking around for so long that they could have ended up on various albums: Lost dates back to Avalon, various other tracks could have been on Horoscope or Alphaville etc.

The jazz albums are an interesting diversion and as I said in my original post the Roxy musicians would have had next to nothing to contribute to these.

And please don’t misunderstand me: I am a BF fan. I just wish that he would take more pride in his solo career and do more tours like the Dylanesque tour when he performed at least one track from every solo album and only Jealous Guy and Love is the Drug from the Roxy body of work. Now that is what I call a BF concert worth attending. I just wish that he’d have toured every other year with Roxy Music and kept the two careers distinct and separate.


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 Post subject: Re: Roxy is Ferry?? - Ferry is Roxy ???
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:31 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:58 am
Posts: 140
owhawell wrote:
I am a big BF fan, and I rate his early solo albums very highly. His offerings from 1985 onwards though have all disappointed me though; each album has certainly had high points but I’ve always found the overall impression too ‘samey’.

With Roxy Music albums though they never sounded ‘samey’ and the highpoints were so many. How many ‘dud’ Roxy tracks are there? Two, three, four? And that’s across eight albums.

I remember the 1985 BBC interview that BF did and he was asked if the Boys and Girls album could have been a Roxy album...and one of the reasons he gave was that he didn’t want the albums to all sound the same. Staggeringly ironic with the benefit of hindsight!

Very obviously Manzanera, Mackay and Thompson had a powerful effect in the studio. Sure, I can’t I imagine them wanting to contribute to Dylanesque or As Time Goes By anymore than BF would have any useful contributions to make to Resolving Contradictions or 6PM, Corronchos or the Metaphors album.

To say that Roxy = Ferry and Ferry = Roxy is so baffling and bewildering that I wonder if some people just hear rather than listen.

On a tangent I’ve played saxophone with several Roxy tribute bands which means I’ve performed with multiple tributes to BF, PM, PT not to mention the keyboard and bass guitarists, and I can tell you even the difference between tribute musicians is staggering, and that most of them are at least the equal of the musicians that BF currently chooses to go on stage with: but all the finest tribute band musicians hold PM, AM and PT, EJ, JG and AS in the highest of regards. I have also found myself on stage with musicians who unfortunately didn’t hold the originals in high enough regard and the musical results were very disappointing to put it mildly.

Excellent posting Owhawell, perhaps in some part due to the fact that you are a musician. I often think that BF became a victim of technology and having his own studio. Going back a few years recordings consisted of a limited number of tracks and studio time was expensive, so things were done quickly. Not the case anymore and if you are a perfectionist when do you stop the recording/mixing process?
Over the years Phil has been VERY modest about his success as a producer and yes I believe Phil and Andy had a big presence in the studio, hence their writing credits on the later albums. Also I think that when the 1st album was recorded TGPT was the only pro musician as O'List had gone.
Respect to you for playing the sax. With the guitar or piano you can get going straight away, but with the reed instruments you have to learn the technique before you can even get a sound!
Have a look at the following link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOF95175C0A
Very interesting interview with the mighty Manzo with a few facts that I didn't know before.
Roger


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 Post subject: Re: Roxy is Ferry?? - Ferry is Roxy ???
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:17 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:59 pm
Posts: 107
Thanks Roger; that is a superb interview.


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 Post subject: Re: Roxy is Ferry?? - Ferry is Roxy ???
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:11 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:18 pm
Posts: 212
Whilst Ferry has always been the architect of the “Roxy project” I’m sure the role of other musicians in terms of collaboration with him has changed greatly over the years. Let’s take 1973, for instance, a year in which Bryan managed to come up with 2 Roxy albums, a solo album and two major tours with the small matter of Eno upping sticks in the middle to contend with. The Ferry of 1973 would have been under record company pressure to deliver “product” in time to meet deadlines, a concept which became more alien as the 80s and 90s progressed. He no doubt needed more creative input from the other band members (coming up with the music for Mother of Pearl, for instance) when faced with the pressure of a looming release date.

By 1979-1982 Ferry had the luxury of a solo career including self-penned material behind him (being able to bring completed songs such as Dance Away to a Roxy album). Phil and Andy by then were Roxy in name but did they have significantly more actual creative input than say Neil Hubbard? Roxy Mk1 didn’t need a second guitarist – how did Phil feel about him coming on board? It’s been frequently said that Phil and Andy were none too pleased (at the time) about Bryan adding Yannick Etienne’s vocals onto Avalon by presenting them as a fait accompli. This doesn’t come over as a collaborative process by 1982 even if it once was in 1973. Maybe the abortive Roxy Album 9 project collapsed because the other members were hoping to work together again using the 1973 working model, whereas that ship had sailed and Bryan was used to the luxury of spending to 2 to 3 years on the very expensive pieces of tapestry that Boys and Girls and Mamouna became?

Put the name Roxy Music on a concert listing and you can sell more tickets and so play bigger arenas than if you just put Bryan Ferry, even if many of the songs and personnel are essentially interchangeable. It’s a matter of cold, hard commerce. Perhaps in his mid-70s Bryan has earned the right to merely re-make and re-model rather than return to the tortured artistic processes of the band’s early years. And maybe the role of the admittedly fine musicians that play with him live now is more to replicate rather than to innovate.


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 Post subject: Re: Roxy is Ferry?? - Ferry is Roxy ???
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:32 am 
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Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 7:23 pm
Posts: 1428
Hipsters,
What a salient piece from ‘True2Life’ - true points were made.
Isn’t the truth that it is the nature of creativity that changes ?
Windswept wouldn’t doubt that although Ferry set the direction and that ‘Roxy’ was his project ,those early albums probably would have been more collaborative. But isn’t this is always the case when you are finding your feet in any career ?
And yes, ‘True2Life’ is correct, the commercial pressure would doubtless have been great.
Also, isn’t it true that supposed ‘groups’ only have real longevity when they have creative partnerships of relatively equal weight; Jagger/Richards, Fagen/Becker and even, God help us, the likes of Bono/Edge.
Then, surely they are not really groups at all but duos with the others vacillating around them and in Windswept’s opinion there was never a counter weight in Roxy. Perhaps had Eno stayed, he could have filled that role but it clearly didn’t interest him and he threw his feather boa out of the pram early in the process.
Fans can only speak personally about these things and for Windswept, the different lineups - Roxy included - have always been vehicles for Ferry to express his creativity and it was his creativity that has taken us on this most phenomenal musical journey.
That said, Roxology is a broad church and there will always be those he think it was all down to TGPT!
Salutations et bon sante a tous.
W2


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 Post subject: Re: Roxy is Ferry?? - Ferry is Roxy ???
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 348
Windswept wrote earlier:

Casual visitors to this section of this hallowed cyber hall could be forgiven for thinking that ‘Roxy’ was conceived by Manzo, TGBT, Eno and Andy over a cup of coffee after which they decided to...

Forgive the in joke folks- but Windswept- the great Bobby Thompson was a crap drummer.


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 Post subject: Re: Roxy is Ferry?? - Ferry is Roxy ???
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 7:23 pm
Posts: 1428
rendezvous wrote:
Windswept wrote earlier:

Casual visitors to this section of this hallowed cyber hall could be forgiven for thinking that ‘Roxy’ was conceived by Manzo, TGBT, Eno and Andy over a cup of coffee after which they decided to...

Forgive the in joke folks- but Windswept- the great Bobby Thompson was a crap drummer.


Cher rendezvous,
C’est vrai, TGBP was terrible on the skins.
What’s more, the little wastrel would never have the wardrobe for Roxy !
Salutations,
W2


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 Post subject: Re: Roxy is Ferry?? - Ferry is Roxy ???
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:42 pm
Posts: 206
Interesting discussion here.

I am definitely a Roxy fan. I do like Ferry's solo work but for me it doesn't come near Roxy's output. Personal views obviously differ.

For me Roxy Music is the musical stew constructed by Ferry, Andy, Phil and TGPT plus the various bass players and of course Eno and Jobson in their different ways.

Its the combination of the above that is unique and can't be really replicated by any of Ferry's bands.


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 Post subject: Re: Roxy is Ferry?? - Ferry is Roxy ???
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 4:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:11 pm
Posts: 146
Roxy Music & Bryan Ferry have had exceptional careers. Bryan has
been more active of course, yet, in my opinion none of his albums can
match the magic of the first five Roxy albums, nor the very good sixth, Manifesto.
His albums Bete Noire (although over-produced) and Mamouna (shame about the horse) are nearer to F&B and Avalon.
Roxy were strong, great musicians. Bryan has always had the knack of putting a good band together for his own tours, yet really, (IMO) none of them match the Roxy Team 1:1. Even Eno.... I still believe U2's and Bowie's best work was under Eno's influenece...
Whatever, I am 100% Bryan and Roxy, but it is Roxy's output which still gets my heart beating.


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