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 Post subject: Here's a rare one
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:10 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:33 pm
Posts: 144
Location: New York City
Just appeared on Youtube.

The Space Between (lip-synch) TV performance.

https://youtu.be/OgKCSfoKUw4

Enjoy!


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 Post subject: Re: Here's a rare one
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:04 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:58 am
Posts: 140
Excellent find! I could also believe that BF was a guitarist watching this video - he looks very comfortable with his Strat :D


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 Post subject: Re: Here's a rare one
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:25 pm
Posts: 517
Location: Kempten
Roger wrote:
Excellent find! I could also believe that BF was a guitarist watching this video - he looks very comfortable with his Strat :D


Hi Roger, I always thought Bryan is more a kind of a guitar "poser" but obviously always underrated his instrumental skills in earlier times - concerning piano, harmonica and guitar. I regret that because I saw and heard him doing very good instrumental parts in the meantime.

What I don't understand is that some regular writers of this forum call PM, AM, TGPT, Graham Simpson, Colin Good or whoever the only member of Roxy Music that has a real musical training ... I think Andy had a classical training with great interest in rock'n'roll and experimental music. Phil was a player with great experience (rock, experimental music, South American folk music).

Paul Thompson was a great powerful rock drummer in the style of Jon Bonham but adapted to Roxy's/Ferry's demands. Eno was creative with his synthesizer treatments, had a nice voice and would have been able to write/co-write/sing some interesting Roxy songs - but this should never occur.

Graham Simpson was a very skilled bass guitar player (Chance Meeting) but due to his illness we were somehow deprived of his playing except from the founding phase of Roxy and the 1st album.

Kenton, Gustafsson, Maida, Tibbs etc. were good studio/tour musicians but the bass guitar position was a little bit of a drama ...

Who else? John Wetton and Paul Carrack were/are very skilled musicians with really wonderful voices. Maybe in the end both were too good to stay close to Bryan ;) .

The drummers, bass guitarists and guitarists did their studio/tour jobs and they did it well: Schwartzberg, Jason oder Hubbard - nothing wrong with them apart from the fact that they never were members of Roxy Music :? .

And finally the big musical director Colin Good: He has his merits, that's undisputed but why did Roxy need a musical director other than Bryan Ferry if some of our members say Roxy is Ferry and vice-versa. By the way IMHO Colin Good is responsible for the fast pace of the songs in the "noughties" that didn't really improve the Roxy repertoire :( .

But the result of all the discussions in several threads is that Roxy Music weren't a band with the prospect to work together as long as The Rolling Stones 8-) . Bryan was a restless changer of musicians but his voice was essential for anything that followed.

BTW I'm very excited about the things that could happen or be released in the next time: The 2020 Live Album, FYP SDE etc. Most important is that our heroes stay safe and healthy !! And his fans, too, of course :) . - "pianoman" Peter -


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 Post subject: Re: Here's a rare one
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:21 pm
Posts: 348
I've played "The Space Between" more than any other Avalon track in recent years. It should have been their final single imo instead of the poppy Take a Chance with Me.

Bryan looks handsome but posing and out of his head on this video mind! And Phil looks confused.


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 Post subject: Re: Here's a rare one
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:27 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:58 am
Posts: 140
pianoman wrote:
Roger wrote:
Excellent find! I could also believe that BF was a guitarist watching this video - he looks very comfortable with his Strat :D


Hi Roger, I always thought Bryan is more a kind of a guitar "poser" but obviously always underrated his instrumental skills in earlier times - concerning piano, harmonica and guitar. I regret that because I saw and heard him doing very good instrumental parts in the meantime.

What I don't understand is that some regular writers of this forum call PM, AM, TGPT, Graham Simpson, Colin Good or whoever the only member of Roxy Music that has a real musical training ... I think Andy had a classical training with great interest in rock'n'roll and experimental music. Phil was a player with great experience (rock, experimental music, South American folk music).

Paul Thompson was a great powerful rock drummer in the style of Jon Bonham but adapted to Roxy's/Ferry's demands. Eno was creative with his synthesizer treatments, had a nice voice and would have been able to write/co-write/sing some interesting Roxy songs - but this should never occur.

Graham Simpson was a very skilled bass guitar player (Chance Meeting) but due to his illness we were somehow deprived of his playing except from the founding phase of Roxy and the 1st album.

Kenton, Gustafsson, Maida, Tibbs etc. were good studio/tour musicians but the bass guitar position was a little bit of a drama ...

Who else? John Wetton and Paul Carrack were/are very skilled musicians with really wonderful voices. Maybe in the end both were too good to stay close to Bryan ;) .

The drummers, bass guitarists and guitarists did their studio/tour jobs and they did it well: Schwartzberg, Jason oder Hubbard - nothing wrong with them apart from the fact that they never were members of Roxy Music :? .

And finally the big musical director Colin Good: He has his merits, that's undisputed but why did Roxy need a musical director other than Bryan Ferry if some of our members say Roxy is Ferry and vice-versa. By the way IMHO Colin Good is responsible for the fast pace of the songs in the "noughties" that didn't really improve the Roxy repertoire :( .

But the result of all the discussions in several threads is that Roxy Music weren't a band with the prospect to work together as long as The Rolling Stones 8-) . Bryan was a restless changer of musicians but his voice was essential for anything that followed.

BTW I'm very excited about the things that could happen or be released in the next time: The 2020 Live Album, FYP SDE etc. Most important is that our heroes stay safe and healthy !! And his fans, too, of course :) . - "pianoman" Peter -

Hi Peter,
As always you have made some very good observations! What I don't understand is why Roxy never had a regular bass player. I guess that John Gustafsson came the closest. John Wetton was never going to stay long term - a big name in his own right who would want to be writing material and singing in addition to playing bass. I would class him as a musician who wanted to do sessions when he wasn't working on his own projects. A bit like David Gilmour, who played in the BF Live Aid band. A musician with far bigger record sales and reputation than Roxy/BF playing in the BF band!
I never understood the need for Colin Goode in Roxy Music 2001. Correct me if I'm wrong Peter, but none of the Roxy keyboard parts struck me as being particularly complicated and perhaps Eddie might have been a bit frustrated at times! If a big keyboard player was needed why didn't Patrick Moraz or Oliver Wakeman play with Roxy?
Finally onto TGPT. Could anyone imagine Andy Newmark playing on the first Roxy album?


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 Post subject: Re: Here's a rare one
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:50 am 
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Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 7:23 pm
Posts: 1428
pianoman wrote:
Roger wrote:

“What I don't understand is that some regular writers of this forum call PM, AM, TGPT, Graham Simpson, Colin Good or whoever the only member of Roxy Music that has a real musical training ... I think Andy had a classical training with great interest in rock'n'roll and experimental music.”

“And finally the big musical director Colin Good: He has his merits, that's undisputed but why did Roxy need a musical director other than Bryan Ferry if some of our members say Roxy is Ferry and vice-versa. By the way IMHO Colin Good is responsible for the fast pace of the songs in the "noughties" that didn't really improve the Roxy repertoire “-


Cher Pianoman,

Comme d’habitude, you cover a lot of ground mais Windswept doit dire that he hasn’t read any poster suggesting that Mr.Mackay is anything other than a fabulous classically trained woodwind player !

However regarding Mr. Good, Windswept fears you are well off the mark.

The ‘Roxy Reunion’ of ‘01 is considered by many aficionados to be one of their best tours. The line-up comprised, along with ‘Avalon’ their biggest band with some of the musicians playing together for the first time.

In these circumstances, it was entirely logical for BF to empower Mr. Good as musical director and he did so to great effect.

It probably allowed the band to work more harmoniously than maybe would have been the case had Bryan had to direct it himself. Furthermore it probably released BF from endless rehearsals of material that he knows like the back of his hand and much of which, unlike the other three ‘Roxy’ stalwarts, he had been playing regularly over the intervening eighteen years.

Concerning the ‘speed’ and abridged nature of some of the songs,
one can either like it or not but W2 doesn’t think for a minute that it would be a ‘solo’ Good decision. As a tactic it works well insomuch as it generates tremendous energy and gives the fans a little of everything they may want but yes, maybe it comes at the expense of depriving the more forensic Ferryistas (Windswept included) their folie de grandeur.

Finalement , in Windswept’s not so humble opinion, Colin Good’s new intro for ‘A Song For Europe’ alone was worth the price of admission. Not to mention he must surely be the most accomplished keyboard player that BF has ever worked with. Nobody tinkles the ivories quite like Colin and the clarity, finesse and power of his playing is really something to behold.

Let’s hope for a Good/Ferry reunion!

Salutations a tous and here’s to the day we can ditch these bespoke masks.

W2


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 Post subject: Re: Here's a rare one
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:26 am
Posts: 1056
With regard to the bassist role, there is a school of thought that BF's loyalty to Graham S. ran deep enough to want the role sufficiently semi-vacant, just in case Graham should be able to resolve his emotional problems and return to the fold. As BF's autobiography looks likely to remain unwritten, we'll probably never know... ;)

Rik K. was possibly recruited primarily to fulfill live commitments which had been agreed before Graham's departure; or perhaps he just wasn't a good fit in some way. Thereafter, BF was prone to saying in interviews that this bassist or that one looked like being a keeper, but none of them ever stayed! Johnny G. was hugely influential, but didn't seem to want to tour; Sal did the tours, but was coming to the end of his visa (and would presumably have required a work permit); John W. wanted to be a vocalist too and King Crimson offered him that freedom.

As for musicianship, the title of "virtuoso" would probably sit most comfortably with Eddie, IMHO; his academic studies were shelved in favour of joining Curved Air almost straight from school (I find it easy to understand the lure of standing next to Sonja Kristina in her youthful prime!), but his violin and keyboard skills have never been surpassed in either Roxy or BF's bands. I'd be surprised if the original intro to SFE wasn't penned at least in part by him, while As The World Turns holds a special place in the hearts of many here.

Musically Colin Good was very important to the jazz & swing related music (I suspect he probably assisted with recruiting and rehearsing the jazz musicians and with scoring their parts), but possibly less so with the rock stuff, to which he is not naturally suited. His value to BF was probably as much as Musical Director as it was as a band member.

As MD he would have taken some of the load off BF's shoulders and reduced the need for, or risk of, micro-management. I'm sure it would have been among CG's duties to get the band members to rehearsals, soundchecks and gigs on time and, on occasions, to supervise those soundchecks. I witnessed this at first hand in Dubrovnik, partly because Mrs Smudge & I stayed at the same hotel as the band and partly because the gig was in the old city square with difficult acoustics, which led to the soundcheck being lengthy and public (for which reasons BF chose not to attend it and to entrust matters to CG).


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 Post subject: Re: Here's a rare one
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:13 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:25 pm
Posts: 517
Location: Kempten
Windswept wrote: Comme d’habitude, you cover a lot of ground mais Windswept doit dire that he hasn’t read any poster suggesting that Mr.Mackay is anything other than a fabulous classically trained woodwind player !

Cher Monsieur Windswept, it appears to me that you are considerably underrating Andy Mackay's skills: His influence on the Roxy sound, his remarkable solo activities, The Rock Follies, The Metaphors, Roxymphony or The 3 Psalms. Jorja is tremendously talented but at least in the Roxy songs she knows exactly what to play ;) . And remember: Colin Good could only write the new introduction to ASFE because Andy had composed it 8-) .

Windswept wrote: The ‘Roxy Reunion’ of ‘01 is considered by many aficionados to be one of their best tours. The line-up comprised, along with ‘Avalon’ their biggest band with some of the musicians playing together for the first time.

In these circumstances, it was entirely logical for BF to empower Mr. Good as musical director and he did so to great effect.


I enjoyed this show (in Munich) very much, too, and the Good speed gave the Roxy material more power - BTW musicians know that we always play songs faster as usual on stage (excitement) - so I second your opinion. Bryan Ferry practices this until today in his concerts, when 23 or 24 songs are presented in 90 minutes. Nevertheless I am a little bit shocked when I listen to the recordings :? .

And yes, a musical director may disburden Bryan - I know that he still had one in his last shows (unfortunately Christian Gulino and not Colin Good as WS2 may throw in ...). I know that democracy in a band sometimes comes to an end when one member has to say what should be done to achieve the best results. So a musical director or band leader also has benefits. I admit defeat :lol: .

Smudge wrote: As for musicianship, the title of "virtuoso" would probably sit most comfortably with Eddie, IMHO; his academic studies were shelved in favour of joining Curved Air almost straight from school

Absolutely seconded, Smudge. Sorry, I forgot him in my list. He was the musical star in this band but on the other hand a very humble, modest person. And John Wetton (UK, King Crimson, Asia) was a very talented bass player, song writer and singer - the kind of musician Bryan couldn't give a chance in his band. The same to keyboard player Paul Carrack (Ace, Mike + The Mechanics) who has such a brilliant voice - no further use within Roxy Music ... BTW I still bought Asia's records till Wetton's death and also Carrack's solo CDs till today.

Comme M. Windswept a recommendé: A good record a day keeps the doctor away. That's what I'll do now (Chris Spedding's Greatest Hits) but nevertheless I'll eat the famous apple, too :lol: . Stay healthy !! -p-


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 Post subject: Re: Here's a rare one
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:26 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:58 am
Posts: 140
Hi Peter,
I agree 100% with your comments about Andy. What a project Rock Follies was - it demonstrated his musical imagination. He worked with Mott The Hoople as well.
I both agree and disagree with W2 about the 2001 Roxy tour. Yes once the early gigs were out of the way and the guitars had been put up in the mix it was very good. However, bigger doesn't mean better and I thought that the band was a bit flabby in terms of numbers. Give me the Manifesto band with six musicians any day.
Speeding up live? Well yes I have noticed this, but then in 1974 I'm sure that some songs were slower, such as Prairie Rose. As Herbie Flowers once said it takes a very confident and talented drummer to stop himself and the band from speeding up during a song. Anyone spring to mind?
As regards bass players let's not forget Gary Tibbs (brought in for his punk credentials), the late Alan Spenner and of course Guy Pratt.
Peter as regards Chris Spedding my favourite solo albums are Hurt and Guitar Graffiti. Guitars everywhere, just as I like it :D


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 Post subject: Re: Here's a rare one
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:36 am 
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Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 7:23 pm
Posts: 1428
pianoman wrote:

“What I don't understand is that some regular writers of this forum call PM, AM, TGPT, Graham Simpson, Colin Good or whoever the only member of Roxy Music that has a real musical training ... I think Andy had a classical training with great interest in rock'n'roll and experimental music. Phil was a player with great experience (rock, experimental music, South American folk music).”



“Comme d’habitude, you cover a lot of ground mais Windswept doit dire he hasn’t read any poster suggesting that Mr.Mackay is anything other than a fabulous classically trained woodwind player ! “

[/quote Windswept]

“Cher Monsieur Windswept, it appears to me that you are considerably underrating Andy Mackay’s skills .......”

[/quote pianoman]

Cher pianoman,

As demonstrated above, you have taken Windswept’s words out of context.

Windswept is merely refuting your suggestion that posters don’t acknowledge the great Mr. Mackay’s classical education as he has read nothing to that effect.

W2’s comments are not designed to insinuate that Andy’s considerable talents are restricted to blowing up a storm when his talents as a composer, arranger and sartorialist have been so well demonstrated both inside and outside of Roxy.

Salutations a tous,

Windswept


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