J.O,B.
Hi, how much of this release is new? I'm afraid I don't know anything about Horoscope! Thanks.

HR thanks for the question which gives me the opportunity to discuss this point:

First of all I don't want to appear to blindly be a 'defender of the faith' as I have my albums and songs from the BF canon I don't particularly like too (In Your Mind album being one that surprises a lot of Roxy fans but I just can't get to like it other than 2 tracks, same goes for Another Time Another Place)

I just want to make the point that this album may be being pre-judged unfairly by some and appreciate that a whole lot of other fans are excited and looking forward to it too.

In reference to your question about Avonmore, to be accurate, It's all new in that none of this album like all Bryan Ferry's new studio albums has never been officially released before other than forthcoming singles to promote their relevant albums. (Johnny And Mary and Shameless being exceptions as they were included on collaborators albums prior to the Ferry album)

Bryan has said from the start of his career that some songs take a while and sometimes several albums pass before a song is finished. Some fans are critical that they have heard Loop De Li (in one form or another before) and therefore they feel they are getting a 20 year old song. Like I said these songs have never been released. If some fans took the opportunity to hear some out takes 12 years ago (that includes me) then that is like looking in the 'Toys R Us' bag at the bottom of your mother's wardrobe at the beginning of December then feeling that you have had no surprise on Christmas morning ..... don't blame Santa for that one.

We as fans make it our business to know a lot about our favorite artists music and career, that's only natural. The problem is we can know too much then that clouds our opinion and sometimes creates a per-conceived bias.

If we applied the logic of "'it hasn't been written since the release of the last album therefore it can't be good" then we could all of a sudden dislike many Roxy/Ferry classics.

From what I have seen and read and quotes from Bryan:
Psalm was the first song he wrote but took 3 albums to finish it.
Grey Lagoons was demoed along with other first album songs in 71 but wasn't finished until the second album.
As The World Turns began during the Siren sessions but ended up as 'much praised' Ferry track 2 years later.
Dance Away (a number 2 single) began during In Your Mind and therefore took 3 albums to finish it
New Town (in my opinion one of BFs best solo tracks) began during the Manifesto sessions but it took 5 albums before it was finished.

These are only examples of what I know and I am sure there are plenty more examples of this.

Bryan/Roxy are not alone in this. My favourite album in recent years is Grace Jones Hurricane, I read about 6 months after I bought it and played it to death that half of it came from an aborted album recorded 10 years earlier ...... did it make the album then all of a sudden sound not so good to me..... I think not.

A case in point is The Endless River album due to be released by Pink Floyd the week before Avonmore. Are the Floyd fans sitting right now excited that they are getting something new to listen to from their favorite artist or are they thinking it cant be any good as the songs were not written in the last year. (20 years old material is what their new album is made from) Every Floyd fan I have spoke to so far is a 'Yes' voter for their forthcoming album. Bryan 4 years after retiring age is giving us his 135th, 136th, 137th, 138th 139th 140th 141st and 142nd original song in a among the many covers and some instrumentals he has written too..... let's be grateful for that. Who would have thought that when we saw Virginia Plain on TOTP in 1972.

Can we just judge the Avonmore album like any album we buy of any artist on what it is rather than what it isn't. Most BF albums have taken a few listen to get into and a few 30 second clips on Amazon through the 'ten bob' speakers on our laptop is not a good way to absorb this or any other album.

Bryan Ferry has made albums for over 40 years and through that canon of work he has created so many different styles and the 'Mamouna' sound is one of them where the soundtrack becomes a rich tapestry of nuances where the sum of the whole is bigger than the sum of the parts. No one does that sort of thing better than Bryan. He may be re-visiting an old sound in one or 2 of the tracks but it is 'his' sound he is revisiting. Try and listening to 5 different heavy rock bands and decipher who has an original sound between them.

Take Elton John or The Rolling Stones, they both have been making the same record with the same sound for the same people for over 40 years. In some ways Bryan Ferry has become a victim of his own success with his eclectic and chameleon approach to making music ..... that's what I like about his music.

When I get the chance to hear Avonmore in full I won't judge it on what session musicians are/arn't used, what original Roxy members are/aren't present, it doesn't sound like the first 5 albums etc, some of the material began a while back. I will judge it on itself and its own merits. As far as anything Bryan Ferry has released before these are 10 new tracks for us to hear

To answer your specific question HR, Horoscope was an album Bryan worked on after the New Town tour and put it aside to do the Taxi album, 4 of the songs were finished for Mamouna, and one ended up on the One Way Love CD Single (a re-recording of Mother Of Pearl) and Loop de Li and Midnight Train have been finished for Avonmore.

A Roxy fan once said about hearing unreleased materil or out-takes by any band "If you look under the magician's cape, don't be surprised if it doesn't seem like magic anymore."

J.O'B looking forward to November 17

i haven't indulged in debate over ferry's new project, largely because i wanted to hear the finished article before making judgement. i think we owe that to the great man, at least.

hear hear john, sound arguments well-made. loved the christmas present analogy.

let us hope that avonmore is the gift we've been waiting for - rather than the stocking filler of which some of ferry's contemporaries have become associated.

at least bryan continues to release "new", previously un-released material well into his 60s (and, presumably, forward into his 70s) and has new people producing/playing and, indeed, singing on his tracks in this, 2014, is something for which we should all be grateful...

would we rather a seemingly endless canon of old standards, a la the erstwhile rod stewart et al?

i think not.

keeping my counsel til the 17th!
viva bryan

Fair enough JO'B.

So here's a counterpoint. If/when the Roxy recordings of 2005-06 are ever released they won't be "new" but they will be a New Roxy Album and just about everybody on the VRM Forum will be overjoyed. It seems that would be an relatively reasonable analogy to the "new" Floyd album.

Roxy and BF have never (at least to my knowledge) released new cd versions of old albums that include "bonus" tracks recorded in the era of the original album. This is VERY common among other artists but not BF/Roxy. BTW wouldn't it be interesting to have a reissue of IYM that included a version of Dance Away? Or how about a reissue of Mamouna that would include bonus tracks of many of the Horoscope tunes that didn't make it to Mamouna.

The Thrill of it All boxset included various b-sides and some remixes of various songs, but (to my memory) they were all tracks that had been officially released somewhere at some time. In contrast, some bands have very directly and overtly put together albums of unreleased tracks and labeled them as such (The Who's Odds and Sods is a superb example of this genre)

Up until Mamouna, BF may have drawn upon his archive for tracks and songs, but the albums maintained a consistency of sound and musicians that Frantic, Olympia and (apparently the impending) Avonmore lack. I will buy the new album in November, but my excitement is tempered by the fact that it appears to be following in the footsteps of Frantic and Olympia...

Maybe I am basing my straw poll on comments posted online but my impression was there were a lot of Floyd fans out there distinctly underwhelmed by the prospect of The Endless River on the basis that, with only 2 original members present and using material which was not included in The Division Bell 20 years ago and so which many assume to be inferior outtakes, this cannot really be classed a Floyd album at all. It's as if Bryan was to go out under the Roxy name without Phil, Andy or Paul.

There's nothing wrong with polishing an unfinished song until it makes the grade on a later release. The trouble is some may think this tactic is also a smokescreen for covering up a lack of current songwriting output, plus the inevitable deterioration in the Ferry vocal chords over the 20 years since the Horoscope sessions.

I enjoyed Olympia more than I expected to, and I hope to do the same with Avonmore.

Fellow Frantics,
C'est Vrai. The gestation period has nothing to do with it.
The question is - is it good or not? November 17th will tell.
In the interim, Windswept thinks that 'Loop Di Li' is good but perhaps not great.
That said, he remains optimistic that the album - taken as a whole will be up to the usual phenomenal standard and that our hero's next opus will be a "Re-Made, Re-Modelled" version of his classics. Stripped back, Jazzed Up, Orchestrated where appropriate and include the bar room version of MTT.
Salutations,
Windswept

Great post John, I fullheartedly agree. I especially like the Christmas gift analogy.

Just one stupid question: didn't you write on your website that Psalm was the first song BF ever wrote?

http://www.vivaroxymusic.com/songs_374.php

Like the snippets...tantalising. Really like Loop De Li and J&M. Expectations high and looking forward to 17/11. Delighted that one of my favourite old geezers is still producing original material album (ok, 2 covers and some work part-written/recorded in the past....btw, everything is written/recorded in the past, it's just a matter of how far back, and that's a "shades of grey" issue).

PS I like this forum because of all the knowledgable folk who generously share their knowledge, opinions and insights...nearly always with good humour and grace. Viva!

I see your point and I`m sure this might be true, but I think it is the same people that have moaned at every Pink Floyd release since "The Wall". The fact is that this band is so tremendously wanted that we should be grateful for an event like this. The 30 seconds audio snippet at the endless river website sounds promising to me.

Very well said, UKRichard. Maybe a chance has been left out in 2005/6 but probably we will never know if they had destroyed their own monument - with a late Roxy album of minor quality. Genesis, Led Zeppelin or The Police didn't record new material after their reunion tours/concerts. On the other hand, The Eagles published a double album in 2007 and it wasn't one of their worst ...