I don't know much about Stoke City's finances, but Manchester United are a little over £300 million in debt, reduced by approximately £70 million from last year. At least we're heading in the right direction.

I hear what you're saying, John, about players coming up through the local ranks, and wish that it were still so myself. But the stakes are a lot higher these days, and you either adapt or go under.

Manchester United is still a club that commands a great deal of loyalty and respect. We've worked long and hard for our successes. I remember the time when the most we could hope for was the occasional F.A. Cup win. And I was at Wembley in 1983 to see one of those dreams come true.

But these days the F.A. Cup doesn't mean anywhere near as much. Does it, Helen?

[quote="Peanut"] the stakes are a lot higher these days, and you either adapt or go under.
quote]

How can major clubs from smaller nations such as Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord, Rangers, Celtic, Benfica, Sporting Lisbon and Porto adapt when the bigger nations, in a spirit of naked self-interest, have set up all of the rules to perpetuate and extend their dominance and to keep the rest of us away from the trough? There is no scope to adapt - so is it a slow spiral to oblivion for these great clubs and for the associations that they underpin?

It all comes back to the corrosive effect that the excesses of cash flying around in some countries is having on the great game - not only at individual level (e.g Tevez) but also at institutional level.

This went up on the giant screen in Piccadilly Gardens yesterday:

Time to give this prophetic mock-up from a couple of years ago another spin:

I have enjoyed all of the banter between Helen and Peanut. If this is typical of what goes on between local rivals in England then it is much more healthy and good humoured than a lot of the nonsense that we see up here between our 2 great clubs.

One thing does occur to me though i.e. if we go back even a couple of years then would Man Utd fans have risen to the bait? Has City's new found buying power got Utd fans rattled?

As with most countries,the good get drowned by the bad. We have around 60million in the UK and about 1 million are no gooders ! Bring back hanging I say !

That's the Man City problem sorted, then

In all seriousness, the above exchanges between Helen and I are fairly typical in Manchester. There are a few nutters on both sides, but generally it extends no further than a little gentle ribbing, all said with a smile on one's face.

The Glasgow Old Firm has that religious angle that, unfortunately, feeds the hatred.

In Manchester, City are traditionally the protestant team, having been founded as St. Mark's (West Gorton), whilst United became the choice of catholics almost by default -- although the line of demarcation is nowhere near as clearly defined as it is north of the border. Most kids that go to the games here are probably not even aware of the historical religious aspect.

[quote="Peanut"]

That's the Man City problem sorted, then

Good Heavens!... that's a bit rich when United are not even based in Manchester!!!!

Hope you have booked your flight over for the Derby Peanut? you are all going to be given a map on the way out to guide you all safely out of Manchester without getting lost.

Off to put my tin hat on, as i can hear the bullets whistling past my ears as i sign off ...

Feel free to join in Avondale, but only if you're batting for my team that is

Love ya x